Abu Dhabi To Leave Gulf Air

[AL_NAAMANI]

This has not come as a surprise. I saw it coming with the advent of Al-Ettihad Airways. Well this is the beginning of the end for Gulf Air. Oman better start investing more in Oman Air or else we might see ourselves losing out on much more. This was the article in todays paper.

<a href="http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=19761&pn=local" target="_blank">http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=19761&pn=local</a>

[winger]

I am informed that Oman considered leaving Gulf Air some years ago, but stayed in following a request made by the Emir (as he then was) to HM. Apparently the Bahrainis are keen to keep Oman in.

I think the logical conclusion to all this is for Oman to pull out of Gulf Air, concentrate on Oman Air and for Gulf Air therefore to become Bahrain's national airline.

Oman may not pull out because a lot of Omanis are employed by Gulf Air.

[Mti]

I really don’t see the reason behind their intended withdrawal particularly now when I read in the press the airline has started showing some profit after years of loss making venture. If the GF is making profit then it is a turn around and a credit to the CEO [Hogan] and all staff.

We have all kinds of Mutual treaties; pacts and cooperation MOUs with all GCC states and this would be ugly if one state starts betraying the other. Am not assessing the commercial angle but the political implications as a whole. Then what is the point of having the GCC secretariat if we are not assisting one another? Why commit millions of papers to ink on supposedly “brotherly bilateral relations” if it is not implemented?

Sheikh Khalifa should move in fast and tell the boys “Hey,this politically incorrect, so STOP it!” period.

[Lotus]

I dont see any point having a Gulf airliner. EU doesn't have one!(though they are as close as blood related family and are single minded)

GCC or gulf countries on the other hand are divided worst than India-Pakistan then why this need for an airline like this.

[Mti]

Hey,

Great misconception. We are NOT divided and it’s wrong to draw parallel with Indo-Pakistan. We in the GCC do have common heritage, belief, culture, resources and above all destiny. We need to stick together to protect ourselves from the sea of turmoil that surround us. Finally MONARCHY is our mainstay so we protect that institution or we wallow in abject poverty worse still perishes all together.

[AL_NAAMANI]

This has now been confirmed by the foreign media.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4242422.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4242422.stm</a>

[Mti]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>Mti said:</i></b>




Sheikh Khalifa should move in fast and tell the boys “Hey,this politically incorrect, so STOP it!” period.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[aqualung]

question: viewed over the long term, should Sheikh Khalifa, or indeed any head of state in such a position, do what is politically correct? or should he be doing what is economically or developmentally correct?

[Mti]

Answer.

Any leader of a GCC member state should take actions that are POLITICALY CORRECT to avoid disintegrations of the GCC institution. He needs to do that to avoid bad blood, malice and ill feeling between its people and neighbors.

As I said, why do YOU think we committed tons of paper to ink? All on fraternity, brotherhood and bonding of the ARAB GCC people. Do you know we are to have a common currency come 2010? Are you aware we have integrated our customs & excise system? Do you know we share intelligence?

So why this killjoy or spoilsport action of withdrawing from this and that? The buck stops at sheikh Khalifa’s desk. Period.

[Mti]

On one front this has been a GCC activity for this week, on the other a dumb official plans to withdraw from this and that. Isn’t it absurd?

1.AGCC Monetary Institutions and Central Banks Governors Meet.

2. AGCC Executives of Adults Education and Illiteracy Obliteration Meet.

3.AGCC Electricity Cooperation Committee 18th Meeting.

[Tiger Lily]

A little off topic, but do you think the AGCC will have a single currency like the Euro?

[Mti]

As I said in my post above, the plan is to have a unified AGCC currency by 2010. In fact a stronger and more stable common currency than euro. Thereafter the common passport system. NB. We are not planning to take any new members i.e. Yemen Iraq.



It is absurd to see ANYBODY withdrawing from anything within the AGCC framework.

[Tiger Lily]

Will they chose a name from the existing currencies? Rial, Dirham, Dinar?
I know this is detailed, but how will they decide on the exchange rate?

[Mti]

My understanding is, there are working committees tasked to research and compile a report on the “How & Which” and other technical details.

[Tiger Lily]

Back to the topic- sort of.
Etihad, you think it will fly to Oman?

[aqualung]

How is Gulf Air a symbol of GCC brotherhood and fraternity when about half the members, Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi have no part in it?

arent those 3 politically incorrect? No problems there?

In any case, why should having a common airline be a thread that holds the fabric of brotherhood together?

Will the arab gulf states feel any less solidarity if they have 6 independent and viable airlines operating?

should should you create a system of subsidy (by operating uneconomical businesses) in order to keep a symbol (3/6 countries - half symbol) of brotherhood afloat?

a common currency etc is good, and potentially can lead to a larger common integrated economy... these are decisions to be taken for economic reasons, if taken for political reasons will hamper development and the economy or possibbly encourage covert or deviant behavior from participants ( plenty of examples of that..if needed).

But you dont need a (half)common airline to have a common currency...

[Raphael]

Mti: I like u man but sorry I couldn't find ONE thing I agree with in your post number 248016.

Facts are stronger than wishes and hopes.

Another thing..I have a proposal for GULF AIR. Disband now...save some money.

GULF AIR: Get Used to Late Flights And Irregular Routes.

[Tiger Lily]

Raphael,

Agree with you on the disdbanding. Any chance of that happening?
I also liked your GULF AIR thing <img src="http://www.omanforum.com/threads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[AL_NAAMANI]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>Tiger Lily said:</i></b>

Etihad, you think it will fly to Oman?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

To answer you Tiger Lily........I flew to London in July with Al Ettihad and the reservation manager at the Ettihad office in Abu Dhabi told me they plan to start flights to Muscat in October.

Just for everyone elses information as of 31st October Al Ettihad will be flying to Toronto via Brussels, Belgium (Code shared with SN Brussel.
Thye will also start flights to Johannesburg in South Africa. Be prepared for more destinations as they days progress.
It is a good airline and it should give Emirates and Qatar Airways a run for their money.

[Tiger Lily]

What's the service like Naamani?
What about prices if you don't mind me askign?

[Panoramic]

I dont think Oman will pull out of GF and I dont think they should.
all they have to do is to get their act togather and start choosing either make Gulf air a budget airline an so we get used to delays and irregular flights with cheap tickets or they shape up and join the big names like BA and Emirates with Excellent service.
at the moment they charge high fares for crappy service.

[Lotus]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>Mti said:</i></b>


Hey,

Great misconception. We are NOT divided and it’s wrong to draw parallel with Indo-Pakistan. We in the GCC do have common heritage, belief, culture, resources and above all destiny. We need to stick together to protect ourselves from the sea of turmoil that surround us. Finally MONARCHY is our mainstay so we protect that institution or we wallow in abject poverty worse still perishes all together.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


dId you know that Holy Qu'ran says that our nation must be ruled by democrasy??


Second, lets must make up our mind on our stance in regards with Israel, USA, womens rights and border demacration!




and after that then I will talk with u about unified GCC.

[muscati]

I actually like Gulf Air. I think they've improved a lot but there's only so much you can do when you're running such an old fleet of planes. They need new aircraft pronto.

Their first and business class service is now among the best in the world. Service in economy has always been good, and the food they serve in economy is better than 99% of other airlines. But travellers don't need just good service on the air, they need good service on the ground and they need value-added services on the plane. No matter how good the stewardess and the food is, no one wants to travel on an old decrepit plane. Why be stuck with old-style hanging tv screens where everyone has to see the same movie when other airlines now have individual screens and choice of movies even in economy.

The question now for Oman and Bahrain isn't whether to continue with GF without Abu Dhabi. What they need to decide is whether to bite the bullet and push the green button for a complete fleet overhaul. Get rid of the ancient 757s and 767s and go for brand new 777s and 787s or Airbus A330s and A340s with the latest gadgets and gizmos.

It's pathetic that even though GF changed their logo more than 3 years ago they are still flying planes which have not just the previous logo, but even the one before that! Image is important, so what exactly are you telling your potential customers, "where so strapped for cash that we designed a new logo but we can't afford to paint all our planes with it"? Besides it's [censored] that GF is debt-ridden. GF has very little debt compared to other airlines. Emirates has billions of dollars of debt taken to finance their huge fleet expansion, and yet they are still making money. GF had $700 million of debt, which is less than the cost of 5 big planes and yet they blamed that for their losses.

[copdot]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>Panoramic said:</i></b>

all they have to do is to get their act togather and start choosing either make Gulf air a budget airline an so we get used to delays and irregular flights with cheap tickets at

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

1. Cheap airtickets (budget airlines) doesnt mean crappy service. Infact crappy service should never be an option even if the flights are free.

2. The one that should be converted to a budget airline is Oman Air. For 2 reasons - A) They fly to very few locations and own a small fleet of small airlines and they can never ever compare to an international world class airline.
and B) All the routes they fly to are competed by good budget airlines.

Oman shouldnt pull out of Gulf air and should make WY a budget airline.

[thejustice]

GA is a commercial airline if it is not profitable than there is no point of keeping it. I knew this was a failed venture, each member was more interested in its own national airline than a joint one. And that by itself was its downfall

[AL_NAAMANI]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>Tiger Lily said:</i></b>

What's the service like Naamani?

What about prices if you don't mind me askign?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



Well when I flew to London in July, Al Ettihad had the lowest fare available which was about 220 OMR (compared to GF, Emirates and BA who were charging in excess of 300 OMR).......can u believe it?

I also had the option of flying into Gatwick(inbound) and flying out of Heathrow (outbound)...which was brilliant because I had to connect with Easyjet at Gatwick to fly to Amsterdam. On my way back from NYC I arrived at Heathrow and conected immediately with Ettihad, which saved me a journey to Gatwick.



The service was very good and the ground staff very helpful in London and Abu Dhabi.

It will be great when they start flying to Muscat.

[winger]

About a year ago ago I had a young-ish Pakistani youth come to see me. He was a relatively new resident in Oman; the family had recently arrived to join their father, who works in the Government here. This lad intended to visit the UK, and had obtained a visa from the British Embassy for this purpose. He booked Etihad via Abu Dhabi (Gulf Air connecting from Muscat) to London through a local travel agency, presumably due to the competitive price.

After he landed at Abu Dhabi, and immediately after checking in at the Etihad counter, he was asked by an Etihad representative to follow him, without explanation. He followed him to the police counter at the airport.

The police took him, without explanation, to a police station. His passport was confiscated. His head was shaved and he was given prison type clothes. He discovered during the course of questioning that they suspected he was travelling on a false passport. The police translator said to him, in a quiet moment, that Etihad Airlines had contacted them and had asked them to investigate.

He was held, in total, for 10 weeks. He was unable to contact his family who, by this time, had tracked him down. Etihad were useless and all they told the family was that he had not boarded in Abu Dhabi.

He was released, told there was nothing wrong with his passport, and that it was a case of mistaken identity.

I was apalled (a) by the police heavy handedness and (b) the casual way Etihad complained without basis and the lack of information they provided the family.

I wrote on his behalf to Etihad. After a month without response, I wrote again. I got an e-mail from their legal advisor that they could not trace the original complaint. So I sent this again, and followed up a further month later.

No response since.

I am afraid that, rightly or wrongly, the experience above has coloured my view of Etihad.

[Karim]

Even though I have expected Abu Dhabi to withdraw from Gulf Air for some time, the announcement did startle me, because Gulf Air managed to claw itself back to profitability, as thin as it may be, but nonetheless, GF is no longer getting funding from the governments to bail itself out of debts.

This is very unfortunate, where two shareholders are leaving gulf air which is now making some profits, so that the two governments concerned (Qatar and Abu Dhabi) can plow more funds into their grossly inefficient national carriers (Qatar Airways and Ittihad), this is a dumb move if you ask me.

[winger]

Airlines are one of those industries which, for some reason, are seen as being a source of national pride and therefore in most parts of the world are heavily subsidised.

So Qatar and Abu Dhabi's decision, including pouring money into their own efforts, is a political one. Gulf Air does not have the same cachet as it is not readily identifiable with a single country.

I recall an episode of 'Yes, Prime Minister', where the PM was due a state visit by the leader of a small African country. Watching the arrival on TV, he saw the leader getting off a 747 with the name of his country emblazoned across it. He was impressed - 'I didn't know they had a national airline'. 'They don't' replied his private secretary, 'a lot of African countries hire one for high profile visits and have it especially liveried. That one has been used by over 10 African countries in the past year. They call it the mumbo-jumbo'.

[aqualung]

This is true... the point was made years back that if one took the aggregate of all the airlines in all the time tracking back to orville Wright, the sum aggregate of the airline industry is a loss.

the reason for that being the nationalistic pride thing "flag carrier", need to reach far flung domestic locations for non commercial reasons and mis management

[AL_NAAMANI]

Just for everyones info Kuwait is launching a low cost airline called Jazeera Airways.....guess more competition in the Gulf.

<a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/30B207BF-89A2-42FE-9A7A-DA822678DCC2.htm" target="_blank">http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/30B207BF-89A2-42FE-9A7A-DA822678DCC2.htm</a>

[shahoman]

I think Abu Dhabi shpould have kept their stake in GF. Kuwait introducing budget airline is good especially for expats / labourers who find it difficult to fly on the normal airlines. Competiton is always healthy.

Agree with Muscati regarding fleet change of GF

[Hey_U]

I'm not suprised by AD's move.Actually I have a feeling that Oman has known about it for sometime now.Which might be the reason of the few months gossip of Oman Air joining Gulf Air fleet. Few challenges ahead, who's to take over AD's stake? taking a share isn't only about paying for it, but enduring all the future risks and debts as well. Gulf Traveller (part of Gulf Air) which has Abu Dhabi as station, where is it to move? Is our airport ready at all to recieve the fleet?

I'm happy for Abu Dhabi withdrawing, they couldn't be any loyal to Gulf Air ever since they started the Etihad Air and if you have been to any Gulf Air flights to Abu Dhabi, you would had known what I mean. More jobs opportunities to Bahrainis and Omanis on the way, more flights taking off from Seeb Airport.Well, it's not so bad afterall.


Good luck to Gulf Air

[Panoramic]

Oman air can not become Budget airline, nation's pride as mentioned by one of the posters.

Indeed, if all those Tourist projects pick up we will have more direct flights to and from Muscat actually we will need them.
Gulf air and Oman air will be able to cover all main routes with their fleet which needs upgrading.

[Mti]

A crucial point non of you tried to a address is, what would be the fate of

The Omani Gulf Air staff, in the event of collapse caused by Abu Dhabi's withdrawal?



You very well know the unemployment crisis that we already face in this country without adding, additional few thousand ex-GF employees. The socio-political consequence is greater than you all imagine it to be. On the economic front, perhaps all redundant employees will fail to meet their financial obligations in the community including defaulting in servicing their bank loans.



You might be wondering “how the hell can we convince Abu Dhabi to remain a partner and continue to prop-up GF with its annual financial support?” Well you can easily get the answer to the question by going thru the treaty we have with the government of Abu Dhabi on “Demarcation mutual convenience treaty” that we have on Braimi border area.



So you see, apart from the tons of documents that calls on COOPERATIONS on every front in the GCC we the Abu Dhabi government do have SPECIAL BROTHERLY relationship that calls for each to help the other in times of NEED. That includes in continuous propping up of any joint venture that exist. It is a strong bond that anyone of the 2 states can NOT walk away from in the name of silly excuse like “economic invaibility of a given venture”

[copdot]

AbuDhabi has given to Oman more than anybody else, perhaps even more than any Omani in the form of grants and investments. Why do we have to bow down every time? Why do we have to be dependant on others mercy and help?

Withdrawal is a withdrawal for whatever reasons, lets get behind it and think of a way forward. Why cant we get out of this "help me" mentality. God alone will help us and He will help only if we ara prepared to help ourselves. I dont see Bahrain doing it. Are we even smaller than Bahrain?

Saudi is to Bahrain what Abudhabi is to Oman. Yet Bahrain took the guts to get itself a separate treaty with the US.

Its funny how converting into a budget airline or shutting down OmanAir brings out all the pride but begging to Abudhabi doesnt.

[Pawan]

In my view .. this news is like a 2 sided coin.. it might have its advantages and disadvantages...
the advantages being, the Hub of gulf air now will be Bahrain and Muscat only, which means more employment, increased revenues for the airport, expansion of the airport to accomodate increasing flights (more jobs again), streamlined running of the airline as only 2 countries are now involved.

disadvantages, bahrain and oman will have to initially invest alot in expanding their airport infrastructure to accomodate the increasing flights, maintenance crews etc., Loyalty to Oman Air might be affected.

[Mti]

Copdot,

I see it differently; "Begging" is a harsher word. See it this way, a brother producing 2.5 million barrels a day bailing out another brother who produces less than 0.7 million [or even less] barrels a day when the need arises. Yes they have helped us a lot over the years so did we in conceding a lot of territory that was legally “The Trucial states of Oman” in the past.

Yes I do agree with you, self sufficiency should be our target as nation and am sure we are doing all we can to achieve this goal meanwhile a helping hand from a brother wont do any harm. After all what’s MAJLIS AL TA’AWOON all about? Masticate the word “TA’AWOON” in this particular case.

Coexistence + cooperation is the key here.

[aqualung]

the concept of "economic viability" is possibly construed as "silly" only in Oman.

[Mti]

Aqua

You misconstrue everything I write. I used the word “silly” to emphasize the inadequacy of the reason. There are far greater political dimensions to consider as politics always determines economic sustainability. In your books, what economy will thrive in a war zone? Arm sales perhaps?

PS. Don’t know whether to address you as “Mister” or “ Lady” for courtesy.

[Mti]

Crucial Gulf Air board meeting today

By A E James

MUSCAT — Gulf Air board will meet here today to take crucial decisions on future course of action in the aftermath of Abu Dhabi’s move to withdraw from the airline.

Board members from three Gulf states, who equally own the airline, are expected to attend the emergency meeting, which will be held at Grand Hyatt.

Oman has four members — Minister of Transport and Communications, Under-Secretary of the Ministry of Transport and Communications, Under-Secretary of the Ministry of Finance and Director-General of Civil Aviation — on Gulf Air board.

Abu Dhabi’s move left Bahrain and Oman as the remaining two stakeholders. Both countries earlier reiterated their full support to ensure the continuity of Gulf Air and the future plans of the airline, in which both governments take full pride in fulfilling the aspirations of the people of the two countries.

Gulf Air has a fleet of 34 aircraft and its network covers 44 cities in 30 countries. Qatar was also once a major shareholder in the airline but pulled out in 2002, in an apparent move to focus on its flag carrier, Qatar Airways. Gulf Air came back into the black after years in the red, thanks to a restructuring programme launched by its President and Chief Executive Officer James Hogan.

<a href="http://www.omanobserver.com/" target="_blank">http://www.omanobserver.com/</a>

[aqualung]

actually my thinking is the opposite...

1. economic viality is independent of politics

2. Policital considerations often force non economic decision making (some decisions to go to war for example, still others are entered into for perfectly economic reasons)

3. and i could go further to hypothesise that the imminent loss of economic sustainability is often a key staring point of political instability.

When the economy is doing fine (measured in a well rounded manner), no one is bothered too much about the political system....

and... you can call me aqua, my views are independent of my gender.

[Mti]

Aqua,

We are in two different “school of thought” to make it worse Am uncomfortable with a nemesis whose gender I cant establish. Perhaps some deep-rooted chauvinistic inclinations fogging my gender parity principles.

finnaly politics, good or bad dictates it all.

[Mti]

Gulf Air to form task force amid Abu Dhabi’s pullout
MUSCAT — The Gulf Air board yesterday decided to set up a task force in the wake of Abu Dhabi’s decision to pull out from the airline. The decision was taken at an emergency board meeting of the airline held here yesterday. The task force will look into issues like financial implications, proce-dures to be followed and the issue of traffic rights of the airline in Oman, Bahrain and Abu Dhabi, a board member said after the meeting.

The board members from three Gulf states had a marathon close door meeting at Grand Hyatt. They said that the meeting was to confirm Abu Dhabi’s pullout from the airline, but declined to reveal anything on the ownership pattern of the remaining partners. But sources close to the airline, citing the decision of the partners after Qatar pulled out two years ago, privately admit that both countries may equally share the ownership of the airline.

Of the 12 board members, four attended yesterday’s meeting. They were Shaikh Abdullah Hassan Saif, Economic Adviser to the Prime Minister of Bahrain, Khalid Eid Muraikhi, Adviser to Abu Dhabi’s Crown Prince, Shaikh Mohammed bin Abdullah al Harthy, Oman’s Minister of Transport and Communications, and Darwish Ismail al Balushi, Under-Secretary of Oman’s Ministry of Finance.

Abu Dhabi has decided to quit Gulf Air last week in an apparent move to strengthen its own flag carrier Etihad Airways, which began operations in late 2003. Oman has four members — Minister of Transport and Communications, Under-Secretary of the Ministry of Transport and Communications, Under-Secretary of the Ministry of Finance and Director-General of Civil Aviation — on Gulf Air board.

Both Oman and Bahrain earlier reiterated their full support to ensure the continuity of Gulf Air and the future plans of the airline, in which both governments take full pride in fulfilling the aspirations of the people of the two countries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<a href="http://www.omanobserver.com/" target="_blank">http://www.omanobserver.com/</a>

[Mti]

To begin with only on 4 out of 12 board members attended yesterdays marathon session. Our side was fully represented on ministerial level. But just an advisor represented the Abu Dhabi side. Why so?

How much political clout does this particular advisor hold? Will he be in position to CONFIRM the withdrawal process? Does have the mandate to make decisions on his own or just communicate wishes of the higher up?

In the coming weeks, for sure events will unfold for better or worse

[Raphael]

this Jazeera Airways...do they fly "Every Hour" or "every 30 minutes past the hour"? Also, do they have as a pilot, a failed PhD acedamic who due to his balding head gets neurophathic kick out of making passangers confront each other with their childhood complexities?

I hope they dont have a falling teardrop as their airline logo!!

[muscati]

Looks like AD wants to be compensated for its share. It's not relinquishing like Qatar did.

[winger]

I would be astonished if the agreement(s) constituting Gulf Air did not provide for the possibility of a partner leaving, and the terms on which he must do so. Typically these provisions include in detail the financial and organisational impact on such partner leaving.

Qatar may have relinquished their share but there is presuambly no reason for AD to do so, particularly as they must have shelled out their fair share over the years.

As others have said, this may not be a bad thing for Oman.

[AL_NAAMANI]

Come to think about it Winger.......I guess it would be a good thing for Oman.

[aqualung]

Long run it could be a good thing for Gulf Air too. When you have 3 hubs within 1500 km of each other, you really dont have any hubs

[Mti]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>aqualung said:</i></b>
Long run it could be a good thing for Gulf Air too. When you have 3 hubs within 1500 km of each other, you really dont have any hubs

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Aqua

May I humbly request for a clarification on the above post pls!

[Karim]

Mti

This is the dilemma faced by airliners like Gulf Air, and I have to add that there are not many with similar circumstances, if there were any. Gulf air was owned by 4 governments, and every government want a piece of GF pie, Bahrain got the HQ, Qatar got the training facility, Abu Dhabi got the aircraft service centre, Oman got…., nothing so far. This is from pots and pans sorts of an angle, but there is the passenger traffic, flight frequency angle as well, i.e. a hub. For example, Emirates hub is Dubai, and Qatar airways hub is Doha, likewise, BA hub is Heathrow, GF hub is Manama, and to some extent Abu Dhabi. Every owner of the GF want its main airport to be part hub, which is ridicules, and this one of the reasons GF is not doing so well, its operations are spread out too thinly, thus there is no REAL hub to GF to talk about.

[winger]

Oman has the GF call centre...

[copdot]

Oman has the call centre yes, but then it was purely from an economical point of view.

Where else in the GCC can they get Arabic speaking/bilingual (local) staff, prestigious office space at an IT park and world class communication hub at such a cheap price?

So choosing Oman was not to give Oman something or do us a favour but to save GF lots of money and get lots of benefits. Never theless it does provide good Omanis with good jobs.

[Tiger Lily]

I hear that they are recruiting Omanis with degrees in IT. They will start interviewing soon for available positions.

[muscati]

There was talk a few years back about moving GF's head office from Bahrain.

Anyhow, I think Oman and Bahrain's economic situations are quite similar so if they want they can work out a strategy that works out to the advantage of both countries.

[AL_NAAMANI]

Just thought you guys might want to see this article since we are discussing GF.

<a href="http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2005/September/middleeast_September711.xml&section=middleeast&col=" target="_blank">http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArtic...middleeast&col=</a>

[SHADOW 2006]

just for eveyones information on oman's share of gulf air

all gulf air pilots are registered from oman (ALL PILOTS)
and the entire plane fleet is registered in oman

therefore if manama is the hub and AD is the service center, oman owns the planes and crew

thats how they had the deals made.

i strongly believe that oman will 100% benefit from this pull out and im sure that in a long run GF will be running smoothly

[Tiger Lily]

Not too sure, but this is a rumour floating around GF call center; Oman hopes to merge Oman Air with GF in a few years... NOt sure of how true this is.

[aqualung]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>Mti said:</i></b>
<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>aqualung said:</i></b>
Long run it could be a good thing for Gulf Air too. When you have 3 hubs within 1500 km of each other, you really dont have any hubs

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Aqua

May I humbly request for a clarification on the above post pls!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

sorry - didnt see this earlier.

basically the hub and spoke system works if you have one central point through wchich all flight connections can be routed. adds to efficiency in terms of balancing long haul vs short haul utilization as well as maintenance, systems etc etc

if you have 3 - you need to triple facilities (service, engineering ground handling, hangars etc), as well as have several short haul flights and possibly replicating long haul flights from each of the different hubs - innefficient and doesnt work from a network perspective.

[Hey_U]

There's a talk that they'll base 7 planes in Muscat, and the rest in Bahrain and Frankfort. The Gulf Traveller maintainance will be shifted to Frankfort (by Lufthansa), while Gulf Air planes will remain in Bahrain. There's a hassle, since Oman never thought of getting its airport ready early enough. I think they're trying to control the situation, but it's not easy to change the routes and shuffle everything from scratch.I'm feeling sorry for Gulf Air, they've just recently recovered from the many years of losses and mess up. It's also a pity to know that the profits they've recently made came mainly from properties they sold in London and elsewhere. Raises a question, will they make any profit this year? Unless they have plans to sell the the airport in Bahrain.

Bahrain consider Gulf Air as a significant source of income to the country, in terms of the money gulf air pumps into their economy. Thousands of crew and engineers spend huge amount of money in bahrain.You could just imagine that Bahrain's make up distributors make millions of dinars every year because of the gulf air crew.

This is a serious issue, which they have to resolve very quickly.

[Mti]

Karim & Aqua

Thanks for the clarification.

[copdot]

The thing is Oman has never been fast enough or shall we say very receptive to reforms in the economy, which is why all this seems so big now.

Oman occupies a very stratetic location both from a sea port and an airport perspective and yet its lagging in both departments. Bahrain maybe very small and cash strapped as Oman but they grab the first opportunity they get when it comes to business. Something we have never learned to do. And which is why perhaps GF chose Bahrain as its hub (as did many other entities).

We have to speed things up. Its not good for business. Our airport company doesnt yet have a CEO, our new airport plans are not going ahead in full steam yet and our other national airlines doesnt have a CEO as well and there doesnt seem to be any plan on table for a recovery plan.

We are all living in a kind of a fantasy world where we feel everything will happen in its due course. God willing. But we will not push our selves nor move our butts to make good things happen our country.

[Mti]

Copdot

Well said.

Though one thing pertainig to the Airport expansion, what happened to to that new company [ bahwan & others] who had taken over the Airport managment?

[copdot]

The Mangement of the OAMC 0 Oman airport management company is now in taken over by the Govt. British airport authority and Bahwan no longer control the company. Its the DGCA now.

[muscati]

Copdot, didn't OAMC recently hire the guy who used to run Christchurch airport in New Zealand as CEO? They're also working on fixing up the airport and the plans for the new airport are going on full speed. They're hoping to start building next summer and be ready end of 2007.

[Mti]

MAWLANA JALATULSULTAN granted audience to Sheikh Hamdan Bi Zayed [Deputy PM] yesterday. It is no surprise if the GF dilemma was part of the agenda. My understanding is, the withdrawal push is orchestrated by the crown prince’s advisors so if the two brothers [Hamdan & Mohamed] put their good will together and come up with an amicable solution, for sure it will strengthen the existing brotherly relations between the two nations.

[copdot]

You are right Muscati. He is the new CEO. But I dont know if they have made it official yet. And they still havent replaced a few other important top management staff.

About the new CEO - He is 3 years away from his retirement. Go figure.

The work on the new airport was supposed to start end 2005/begining 2006 and finish in 2008. If they have delayed the start then I suppose the end might be delayed too.

[Mti]

Yes it is not related to the GF crisis but take it or not, there are few new policy changes in the UAE after sheikh Zaid’s death that can have adverse effects on Oman.

This is one,






<a href="http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2005/September/theuae_September898.xml&section=theuae&col=" target="_blank">http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArtic...ion=theuae&col=</a>

[aqualung]

rather brotherly i must say...

[Karim]

Taking things out of context is becoming a national sport in the forum. I refer here to Mtis web link to the Khaleeje Times report on infiltrators. What Abu Dhabi is doing is quite legal, there is nothing wrong with that, and in fact, the government of Oman has for a long time called upon the UAE to set up a proper border point in the UAE, instead of leaving their borders open up like this. What happen is like this. We have expatriates in Oman who live in Buraimy, they frequently cross the few road humps that separate Oman from UAE, and illegally enter another country, now, Oman have fingerprinted all expatriates and nationals above 18 years of age, the UAE do not have fingerprints record of foreigners residing in Oman, if some one of these infiltrators commit a crime in the UAE, how can the UAE catch them? Further more, simply hopping between two jurisdictions willy nilly with no record proving where someone came from is dangerous.

[Mti]

They might be having a point by introducing this new rule, which could be of importance to their security. One of the angles I saw it from is the loss of income by ROP or the treasury when its stops issuing the road permit that is required for an expatriate to cross the border. Thousands of such permits are issued monthly for a fee.

I am not against the emaratis strengthening their security apparatus but it should be in a way that will have NO adverse effect on the Omani economy. Why shouldn’t they compile a database of all their expatriates like we did? As for erecting their own border post I think it’s a lot more difficult for them than us. The border demarcation is so intricate and heavily relies on the 1955 UN dispute solving treaty that will again bring in more complications if pursued further.

All in all it’s preferable if things are left, as they were pre-Khalifa era than bring new rule and regulations considering the brotherly relations we have with them.

[Karim]

Mti, I don’t know what bothers you about the UAE demarking their border and arresting illegal infiltrators within their jurisdiction? What the UAE government does within the UAE, is for them decide, and for us to accept, since we have been doing the same thing for as long as I remember.

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
One of the angles I saw it from is the loss of income by ROP or the treasury when its stops issuing the road permit that is required for an expatriate to cross the border

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

The Permits the ROP issues are not to enter the UAE, they are merely to allow non GCC nationals to cross Omani border posts to enter Omani territories beyond the border post, they are not visas to enter the UAE, only the UAE can issue such visas. The thing is, the UAE never had a border post with Oman, until recently, but that does not mean the UAE permits non GCC nationals in Oman to enter the UAE. All non GCC nationals who enter the UAE without obtaining an entry visa from the UAE mission in Muscat or border posts, are in violation of UAE law, plain and simple.

The country that has been loosing money over the years is the UAE, because it never bothered collecting visa permit money from the thousands upon thousands of expatriates who reside in Oman, and enter the UAE every month. Oman was collecting these permit proceeds, and they have lately started collecting the border post tax for every car the crosses into the UAE.

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
Why shouldn’t they compile a database of all their expatriates like we did?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
They compile databases of all their expatriates, but they don’t have a database of all OUR expatriates, nor do we have a database of all THEIR expatriates.

[Mti]

Thanks for the clarification Karim.

[Mti]

Oman Air and Gulf Air commit to closer ties

MUSCAT — A senior Oman Air delegation headed by Said Hamdoon al Harthy, Chairman of the Board of Directors, met with Gulf Air President and Chief Executive James Hogan and other senior airline executives at Gulf Air’s headquarters in Bahrain. Working discussions focused on areas of co-operation, including the network, the loyalty programme, common pricing, shared infrastructure, expansion of code sharing, and other opportunities to promote economic development and tourism in the airlines’ owner states.

Thanking the Chairman for his ongoing support and commitment, Hogan said: “Following the withdrawal of Abu Dhabi, our strong relationship with Oman Air will be fundamental and definitive in the way we move forward. At a time when the airline industry is facing so many challenges, it is important that we refine our strategy to work even more closely in achieving synergies and creating economies of scale.” “Working with the unconditional mandate and support of our owner states, we are finalising an enhanced strategy to restructure our business to achieve the right shape and size for our target markets in the future.”

Al Harthy reiterated Oman’s Air’s commitment to closer ties with Gulf Air: “As Gulf Air focuses on a two-hub strategy in Bahrain and in Muscat, it has the opportunity to embrace positive change, notably in the network, where in co-operation with Oman Air, it will be possible to bring in greater synergies in route planning, business operations and cost reduction to ensure the longer term prosperity of both airlines and the region.” ONA

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[AL_NAAMANI]

I just hope it works...considering we have such rivals as Emirates, Qatar Airways and Ettihad Airways. Good Luck to Gulf Air and Oman Air!!!

[Mti]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
<b><i>AL_NAAMANI said:</i></b>
I just hope it works...Air!!!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It would.

[South_Pacific]

In gulf theyr'e:

Oman air.

Kuwait airways.

Qatari airways.

Saudi.

Emirate.

ARabian air.

Ethad.

Gulf air.

The population of the gulf is about 25-30mn? Do these airlines make profit?