Mistreatment of Iraqi soldiers means what? I need answers...Ugly Truth, hfsc, Neo, Calkoon, ANYONE...please answer my questions.

[Love_Wonderer]

I watched a speech Bush was giving and after that he answered some questions.



While he was giving his speech, he said some of our men have been captured and take into prisoner. He said if they treated our men with humanity, as will we with there men.



Now, I heard that a few americans were mistreating some of the Iraqi soldier prisoners.



Will they have to face a trial if they get found out about? And if Sadam finds out that we mistreated some of his men, then would he do the same before we have time to tell him that it wasn't our decision to mistreat them? What would happen if Sadam was to kill some of our men? Would that inrage Bush? What if they capture and kill some of the British, would Bush be inraged or would both Britian and the US be inraged or would just Britain?

[Calkoon]

<b>Islam, not Geneva, to dictate POW treatment </b>



Mar 24 2003



By Helen William, PA News





The US prisoners of war will be treated in accordance with "the teachings of Islam", Iraq's Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said today.



Mr Sabri, who is in Egypt on a diplomatic trip aimed at rallying Arab governments against the US and British policies of "colonialism, neo-colonialism and war", said it would take precedence over the rules laid down in the Geneva Convention.



"First of all, we are committed to the teachings of Islam. We are faithful Muslims. We take care of our prisoners of war in accordance with our teachings of Islam," he told BBC Radio 4's The World At One.



"We are committed first of all to the teachings of Islam and second we are committed to the conventions of Geneva in dealing with the prisoners of war.





<a href="http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/iraq040303/page.cfm?objectid=12772442method=fullsiteid=50082" target="_blank">http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/iraq040303/page.cfm?objectid=12772442method=fullsiteid=50082</a>

[Calkoon]

The Iraqis will never mistreat POW's, although Blair and Bush would like you to think they would.

Consider the film of the POW's we saw. The injured guy was lying on a bed and the Black Lady from Texas was sitting on a sofa. Small comforts you'd never expect the US forces to give to the Iraqis.

I thought it was humiliating to tie the Iraqi POW and have them lying face down in the dirt. And that was al caught on film as well...

I remember when the Taleban imprisoned the missionaries. They were big new with storied circulating that they were being abused. When tey were released with stories of very good treament by the Taleban, they immediately disappeared from the news. I basically is the sort of thing the Western media want you to hear LW.....

[JoshmkII]

<b>The Iraqis will never mistreat POW's, although Blair and Bush would like you to think they would. </b>

huh? they mistreated them in the 1st gulf war, why wouldnt they now?

Nice film, its going to be evidance when we imprison the dogs, not to over look that at least some American POWs were executed by the Iraqis.

[Calkoon]

And how did they mistreat them Josh...? Give me your evidence, else don't even bother spewing your blind unfounded hatered......

[Faith]

Oh com'n Calky! That's the biggest load of BS! Since when did Saddam concern himself about human rights?

[Calkoon]

Faith you're obviously brain washed with the BS Bush hasn't stopped repeating for many months.

Like I said to Josh, give me proof that Saddam mis-treated POW's from the last war? A simple question...... Let the facts speak Faith.

[JoshmkII]

read the reports from the POWs, they were beaten and tortured.

the facts are there, of course Im sure you will avoid them.

[Ugly_Truth]

Calkoon, there were the two pilots that spoke of being beaten.



Prisoners should not be beaten. You speak of beds. Our guys over there don't have beds. In Gitmo, those guys have beds, blankets, heating, air conditioning, dental care, medical care, religious mats, qurans, good food.



Can the same be said of those prisoners in Iraq?



<a href="http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0839_Restoration_of_Iraq_.html" target="_blank">http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0839_Restoration_of_Iraq_.html</a>



Perhaps nothing stands out more in the aftermath of the Gulf War than the contrast of the way the U.S. troops treated Iraqi POW's with the way Iraqis treated not only POW's, but the people of Kuwait as well as its own soldiers. Who could forget the scenes of allied airmen paraded before the camera who had obviously been beaten. Some of the first Iraqi soldiers to defect where poorly clothed, covered with lice. Many had wounds and sores that had not been treated. They were in desperate need of food.

After the ground war was underway, it was evident that many of the Iraqi soldiers were waiting to surrender. One soldier who was bare chested came out of his bunker clutching the piece of paper the allies had air dropped to tell the soldiers how to surrender. He laid down on the ground and his hands were tied behind his back, A U.S. soldier knelt down beside him and began to give him a drink of water.

There were other images of Iraqi soldiers coming out of their bunkers and kissing the hands of the U.S. soldiers to whom they were surrendering. Scenes of American soldiers giving medical aid to the wounded stand out in stark contrast to the gouged out eyes, cut off ears, and the sliced limbs and faces of the people of Kuwait who were treated so ruthlessly by their Iraqi captors.

[hfsc_peace]

After the ghoul movie yesterday ..every POW was on the air here, all had extremely sad stories. ALL TORTURED.



All of their documented testimony about this is encased in their $1.7 BILLION lawsuit agains the IRaqi govt.



Iraq tortures as a matter of course... want the Human Rights Watch links?

[Ugly_Truth]

<a href="http://www.pownetwork.org/gulf/us_district_court%20_suit.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pownetwork.org/gulf/us_district_court%20_suit.htm</a>


the torture varied for each of the POW Plaintiffs, but the overall torture of American POWs by officials of the Republic of Iraq included severe beatings with pistols and rifles, weighted rubber hoses, truncheons, blackjacks, fists, belts, metal pipes, batons, and sticks, including an axe handle. It further included mock executions; threatened castration; threatened amputation of fingers and other dismemberment; threatened death; threats to send their body parts to their families in the United States; systematic starvation; systematic exposure to freezing cold; deprivation of medical care; purposeful aggravation of existing injuries; electrical shock with a device wrapped around a POW’s head; injection of a mind altering substance; kicking, including with steel-toed boots; cupped hand blows to the ears; beating with a mallet on the knees; handcuffs and restraints so tight as to cut off circulation, damage nerves, and cause the hands to swell and turn purple; use of cattle prods and stun guns; being knocked unconscious, sometimes repeatedly; blows to the legs and neck with a heavy pendulum-like object; whipping with a cat-o’-nine-tails; confinement in darkness; confinement in filthy conditions exposing them to contagion and infection; burning with cigarettes and heated spoons; being led blindfolded into walls and stairwells; being urinated and spat upon; mental suffering about the agony that their families must be enduring when the POWs were not permitted by the Iraqi authorities to inform their families that they were alive; living in constant fear of death and torture, a climate intended to create humiliation and degradation; and other atrocities causing great suffering and serious injury in clear violation of the internationally accepted obligations of the Government of Iraq.
Injuries and illnesses sustained during this torture by American POWs generally included a fractured skull, broken bones, including a broken leg and broken vertebrae, broken tibia, broken facial structure, burns, torn muscles, chipped teeth, broken noses, a dislocated jaw, a dislocated shoulder, a torn rotator cuff, perforated eardrums, injuries to knees so severe as to cause lameness, painful joints, injury to kidneys, numbness and nerve damage, hearing impairment, impairment of the sense of smell, infections including eye infection, dysentery, nausea, severe weight loss, massive bruises (in one case so severe and extensive that the bruising was described "as if the body had been dipped in indigo ink"), and other injuries. In at least one case, a POW Plaintiff was so severely starved he ate the scabs off his own body. Pain and suffering of the POWs during this torture and their mental suffering and anguish resulting during their period of confinement by Iraq were intense and extreme. The effects of this brutal treatment by Defendants have continued in years since.
The POWs suffered not only unspeakable and prolonged physical pain but also intense and prolonged mental anguish and harm, both during the actual infliction of torture and throughout their captivity. They lived constantly in terror of further torture of the type their captors had already inflicted upon them, new and unknown tortures, and the fear of death and dismemberment repeatedly threatened by their captors. They heard fellow prisoners’ anguished cries during beatings, sometimes even recognizing the victims’ voices. Hearing the terrorizing beatings gave the POWs a vivid preview of what they and their fellow POWs could expect and greatly contributed to their anguish. Even the sound of the jailers’ keys filled them with fear. Iraq’s forcing of video "confessions" for propaganda purposes not only generated fear and anguish during the torture compelling these propaganda "confessions," but it also generated tremendous guilt about any acquiescence to their captors’ demands. The POWs also suffered intense and prolonged mental anguish because of the suffering of their family members and the effects upon their family relationships resulting from their torture by Iraq. Among other things, POWs and their family members suffered prolonged mental anguish and harm from Iraq’s intentional and total failure to comply with its obligations designed to provide rapid notification to family members of a detained POW. Some POW Plaintiffs have also suffered professional set-backs and economic damages as a result of Iraq’s tortious actions.

[Faith]

Calkoon,
You are in self denial about Saddam. I've seen more accusations in the last week on this forum about Americans being brainwashed than I've seen in the last year here. For you to say that Saddam would not mistreat American POW's after what he's done to his own people makes one wonder about who is the one being brainwashed.

[Calkoon]

Cool down guys. I just wanted to see the evidence. Wasn't aware of any previous mis-treatment..... Since it is a war crime, why hasn't a case also been filed with the Intenational court of justice?

LW said he had news of Americans mis-treating Iraqi prisoners, yet all of you seemed to turn a blind eye to that comment...? Why?

[Ugly_Truth]

Here's my position. If our guys did mistreat prisoners, they should be court martialed. If they wounded them, they should be sent to prison.

My counter question. Now that some Iraqis have faked surrendering, then killed our guys, then can you understand how our guys may become rougher on those that honestly surrender?

I'm not talking beating them, I'm saying, to demand that they remove themselves from their weapons, having a weapon kept on them at all times, and then searched roughly in case there is a grenade or such.

[Ugly_Truth]

I want to point out things about the photo. Note the lack of uniform. No boots. Notice how we are helping him, because he's not fighting. Also note how he's not all tied up.



<img src="http://www.foxnews.com/images/85461/48_1_032403_iraq_top21.jpg">

[Neo]

UT,

Dude. WE are talking about this war. If you compare how US treat the POW and how IRaq is treating them now. THan Iraq is better. Forget about the pass. IF you want me to go back in the pass it would be endless. Remeber guantinamo, remember afghanistan, remember jonny walker etc etc.

So dont bring past treatment. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS WAR. This what I was saying about being stuborn and not for once admit that something is wrong and all thie Geneva bull**** is just media propganada

[Ugly_Truth]

I think we're all in the middle of a propoganda war, as well as a physical war.



We see the "benevolent" treatment of prisoners, but we don't see what is out there where the press are not. This can be viewed a couple of ways.



One, with the western press traveling with our troops, it's natural for them to "associate" with our troops. Also, we're able to "steer" them to areas that we wish them to see.



Two. The Iraqis have banned the western press from moving around. They could be excused for that, because you never know if someones credentials are not quite real (read spy).



Three. The Iraqis show captured prisoners. We show captured prisoners. The main difference is, we are not standing around grinning at the carnage.



The Geneva is very, very important. It gives a standard on how prisoners are treated. I've said this before. I can understand prisoners being tied up on both sides. I can understand the transportation of prisoners won't be inside a luxurious mini van filled with sandwiches and drinks.



The difference is, after they are brought into safety. They cannot be physically tortured or beaten. Rank, name and serial number. And yes, they and we, can be questioned repetively.



As for media propoganda. It was al jazeera that showed that tape. They showed personnel that were killed and or beaten. They were trophies of mayhem. The picture I showed, are not the property of the US government. And ultimately, do you think anything would happen to those men after their faces are shown on tv?



Just by showing their picture, if anything happens to our guys, is proof of something bad. I do remember all that you say. And I can assure you, it's not as bad as you think. Our prisoners are first and foremost fed, given water, and are checked by our corpsmen and doctors. That is personal experience speaking, not what I've read.



So, because they're being beaten inside a building makes their treatment better, because their prisoners are being transported south to a tent city?



Explain to me how Iraq are treating their prisoners better please. The below photo is showing how the iraqis are properly taking care of their prisoners. This gives me much relief. Also, this photo is on the western press, so, I will point out that if the propaganda is only supposed to show the bad side of Iraq, this photo shows that that assertion is not true.



<img src="http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030324/capt.1048550142.war_iraq_pows_bnc103.jpg">

[Neo]

by looking at the pictures we saw recently. The AMerican POWs were sitting in a sofa, laying the bedm given water and tea etc etc.

While the IRaqi soldiers, you see them handcuffed, laying down in the dirt etc etc

Like I said its propaganda sh*T. But the USA should not go and cry that the Iraqis or JAzeera channel is in breach of Geneva convention. The western media are showing the POW's, and they were the first people to do that, remember those vast POWs with thier hands in their head in a long line. DID the USA mentioned the Geneva convention CRAP!!!!! No they didnt. But now that Jazeera showing the POW's everybody is crying.

Like I said propaganda bullsh*t

Where was "Islam" when the Shiites and Kurds were being massacred. Its just to improve Iraq's image to the Islamic world. There's no doubt that its being done well.
That regime is monsterous.

[Snake]

Read a book called Bravo Two Zero and tell me the Iraqis treat the allied prisoners well? Any person who can make another eat his own [censored] and get hepatitus should be shot. Im sorry but the allies are a far more humane. There is a great disrespect for life among the Iraqi people. Thats why they gas and shooteachother to pieces. Any1 seen that video showing am iraqi officer shooting hurds that were tied to wooden posts? The guy was enjoying it. You all need to come down to earth and stop this 'because im islamic the whole western world hates me' thing. Your iraqi brothers dont give a [censored] about u, helll they would shoot u in the back if you got in their way. Any1 here about the 4 Omanis shot dead yesterday in Iraq? No u wouldnt here about would u.

[Ugly_Truth]

Being a POW is not pleasant, no matter how "pleasant" it looks. I haven't seen any Americans fake surrender then pick up their arms to shoot their would be captors. I also haven't seen Americans hide grenades in their clothing, then when there is a chance throw it at a group of captors.

These are muslim "tricks". Did you expect us to allow the prisoners to walk around with their hands in their pockets? Sing camp fire songs? Bring over a couple of limos from NYC? Wait, I see, you expect us to build a Motel 6 out there in the desert, then have a continental breakfast complimentary every morning until the war is over?

One side has buildings, the other side doesn't. As long as our guys are sleeping out in the desert with a blanket and that's it, don't expect a POW to have more then that. If we had buildings, I'm sure we would use it instead. Easier to control. But as long as we don't feel like occupying cities or towns, it's not going to happen.

Face it. Our prisoners are being treated as well as we can, under the circumstances.

[Neo]

The tricks only started later. I am refering on the very first day my dear.

Anyway forget, I am sick and tired dicussing this

[old_n_grumpy]

Sleep tight, dear

[Dabdoob_Al_Helwa]

Those pictures of the american POW's arent reality. The Iraqi's might just be showing such pictures but behind the scenes, no one knows what the reality for those men are like!
<img src="/threads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Calkoon]

UT, on your comments

<i>Here's my position. If our guys did mistreat prisoners, they should be court martialed. If they wounded them, they should be sent to prison.</i>

There have been many cases where American Marines have got away with raping and so I quite honestly do not see the US military Court Martialing any soldiers that mistreat iraqi POW's. As LW mentioned above, it's already started! 9is anything been done abbout it? NO)

Regardless, I'm glad to hear your personal opinion on the issue.



<i>My counter question. Now that some Iraqis have faked surrendering, then killed our guys, then can you understand how our guys may become rougher on those that honestly surrender?</i>


This issue of Iraqis faking surrender or wearing civilian clothes is pure propaganda. It's what the US forces expect. and so before they mistakenly blow away innocent covilians surrendering because the Us soldier suspect they made attack them, they have come out with this propaganda to justify killing civilians approuching the military........

It's pure US/UK propaganda and a precautionary measure to avoid a backlash at home...... i think we've seen loads of US propaganda to date to believe the above lie........

[Invincible]

Morbid,

Have you been brainwashed? you talk about the Americans as if they're the innocent ones, and the Iraqi's are the guilty.

Who's invading the other person's country? they say it's a freedom operation, and then they put the US flags up. What have the Iraqis done to get bombarded with all this crap? You cant just change a regime...not Saddam...I dont know what the hell ppl are thinking. Its just going to cost the lives of thousands of innocent ppl while the pricks; Saddam, Bush and Blair play their mind games.

[JoshmkII]

Saddam was given 12 years to follow the rules that were made when he surrenderd. He didnt. He was told that if he didnt abide by the more recent UN rulings, the US would do exactly what its doing now, and he still didnt listen.

[Faith]

Inv,
Who invaded Kuwait's territory?

[Love_Wonderer]

<blockquote><font class="small"><hr />
Explain to me how Iraq are treating their prisoners better please. The below photo is showing how the iraqis are properly taking care of their prisoners. This gives me much relief. Also, this photo is on the western press, so, I will point out that if the propaganda is only supposed to show the bad side of Iraq, this photo shows that that assertion is not true.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Are you sure and/or are WE sure that our troops aren't being beaten or to be beaten? How do we know that, that picture could have been taken before they started the cruel and unusual punishment? I find it bullsh*t that they aren't being beaten in some kind of way. Could you tell from a mirr picture if those prisoners weren't being shocked with a load of volts of electricity? I think if we invaded there territory and attacked them that they would treat our troops with every kindness they have in there hearts. hahahahah yeah right, Iraqi soldiers or some of them don't have hearts.

And what is this news I saw that they actually did get Sadam the first day of the attack? Did he get wounded? But if that happened then how could have he been on that tape that was controversal being as if it was him or a double?

[Dark Angel]

<i>There have been many cases where American Marines have got away with raping and so I quite honestly do not see the US military Court Martialing any soldiers that mistreat iraqi POW's. As LW mentioned above, it's already started! 9is anything been done abbout it? NO) </i>

Calkoon,

I don't know about "many". But the Military court works on the same premise as a civilian court. It's based on proof. There are people who get away with rape in the civilian world too. Just because you are charged with rape, doesn't mean you did it. <a href="http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl120.htm">Here's</a> what the UCMJ has to say regarding rape.

[Love_Wonderer]

Are you sure and/or are WE sure that our troops aren't being beaten or to be beaten? How do we know that, that picture could have been taken before they started the cruel and unusual punishment? I find it bullsh*t that they aren't being beaten in some kind of way. Could you tell from a mirr picture if those prisoners weren't being shocked with a load of volts of electricity? I think if we invaded there territory and attacked them that they would treat our troops with every kindness they have in there hearts. hahahahah yeah right, Iraqi soldiers or some of them don't have hearts.

And what is this news I saw that they actually did get Sadam the first day of the attack? Did he get wounded? But if that happened then how could have he been on that tape that was controversal being as if it was him or a double?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

The above quote is my statement and a few questions I need answered. Thanks you guys!