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Thread: We Have Our Pope… Who Do Muslims Have?

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    Orignal link: http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=8771

    Name: Amy - United States
    qustion: Thank you very much for providing this website. I have found it very helpful.

    My question concerns leadership and rules in Islam. In the Catholic church, we have a pope who has the final word on all official church doctrine. Now I understand that he does not make these decisions on a whim, the bishops all come together to discuss the matter, and we believe the pope is divinely guided by God when he proclaims an official truth of the Church.

    Of course, the pope does not control every aspect of the church, simply the big issues and official doctrines. In Islam, there is no such office. As far as I understand, it is simply scholars coming together to reach an agreement. My question is, how are the faithful to know what to do if the scholars disagree? Obviously, in the Catholic Church, bishops or priests in good faith may disagree, but if it is an important matter of faith we can look to the pope for guidance. But in Islam, how do you know? For example, some scholars say that even the face covering is necessary for hijab, others interpret it as simply dressing modestly in terms of the country you live in. Scholars have different opinions on growing beards, dancing, music, and so on. How does a good Muslim know who to follow?
    ===========================================
    Answer: As-salamu `alaykum Amy.

    Thank you so much for your question.

    You touched on two different aspects of the situation in Islam. One is that of the absence of leadership, the other is that of the multiplicity of references or authorities who make judgments and decide on rulings.

    Regarding the first aspect of leadership, I believe that the system in Islam is not far away from that of the Catholic church, as it appoints one single leader taking the responsibility of the believers, moreover, not only does this responsibility extend over religious matters, but it also goes beyond it to encompass all aspects of the believers’ lives; political, social, economic, and military. Thus, the theory of leadership in Islam is not that of secularism which separates state from faith but the leader in Islam is the one capable of handling both sides efficiently with the help of a strong council or ruling body.

    Since the emergence of this faith “Islam”, both state affairs and religious authority were in the hands of the first leader; Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him),which was a great breach from the established norm spreading in the land of the Roman Empire surrounding the nascent Muslim state at that time. According to the Catholic Roman Empire, the rule was ‘let what is for Caesar for Caesar and let what is for God for God’. This secular principle has always created a dual authority; one for worldly affairs in the palace headed by kings and emperors and the other in the church headed by popes. This dual system bothered the believers a lot, as in many cases the two authorities contradicted each other and sometimes dramatically clashed.

    Islam, from its first day, affirmed that the leader must be one and should be strong enough to handle both affairs with the help of a mutual consultation council. This system is what the Muslims call “Caliphate” and the leader is called “caliph”. In this way the caliphs went on ruling continuously over one third of the world since the Prophet (peace be upon him) till 80 years ago when this system of the caliphate collapsed in 1924 under the heavy blow of Imperial conspiracy, and this is why you can’t see this leadership now thinking that Muslims have never had a unified religious reference! Such a reference was present for 1340 years but has been absent for only 80 years. Being absent doesn’t mean that it has entirely vanished for no return like the Roman, Persian, or Chinese Empires, which had survived for thousands of years before they fell.

    In the case of those Empires, it was the will of their peoples to give up the idea of restoring their Empires as being of no meaning in post modernistic age, but as for the Muslim people, they are striving day and night to bring their Caliphate back—despite the hard pressures they have upon them nowadays. It is a holy obligation for all Muslims to live under one central government that unite them all. This may justify to you, and to all who watch on TV, the daily restlessness that overwhelm the Muslim world for years which the West calls "terrorism", and the revolutions against their rulers who stand—with the support of anti Islamic powers—on the way of achieving their ultimate goal of restoring their occupied land and restoring their leadership.

    As for your second complaint, that Islam has different opinions on each ruling in contrast to Catholicism, I can tell you that there is no contradiction between having one supreme religious leadership and a multiplicity of scholars to make judgments.

    In Islam both facts and rulings are of two types; the first type are major ones that are revealed directly from God or directed from His Messenger, no scholar is allowed to change them. Major things are like the matters of faith, for example, the divine book, the nature of God and His attributes, who the Prophet is, and what his history is, destiny, the Day of Judgment, and the Hereafter. Major things can also be matters of rituals like praying, fasting, pilgrimage, and almsgiving. Again they can be serious decrees like marriage, divorce, what is legal and what is not.

    Belief in such facts and the application of such rulings are the same all over the Muslim world in a strict manner. All Muslims in Africa, America, Europe, Asia read the same book “The Qur’an” with no single difference in its content, (not even a change of one letter has occurred since its Revelation). No Muslim in Australia fasts in the month of Ramadan while another Muslim in South Africa fasts in a different month. You will never see a Muslim in America praying five times a day while another in Egypt is praying four! No Muslim scholar, even those who live in the West, dares to say that alcohol or fornication is legal in Islam –even when some Muslims occasionally fall into such sins they know they do it against Islam and out of weakness and not because one scholar says so. No mosque wherever it is agrees on a homosexual marriage celebration to be held in it while the other denies, and so on. The scholars cannot have different opinions about these major things.

    In Christianity, the believers still disagree on major things that are the cornerstone of the religion. Christians still have four bibles! In addition to more than one image of Jesus, is he one or three united entities? Or even three separate entities? They still quarrel about the meaning of the Trinity. Some churches agree on abortion and homosexuality while others do not, and many other things of such magnitude.

    Still there are things that Islam considers as minor rulings because they were not decreed directly from God, but God, in His wisdom, intended to leave them open for the scholars to have their own personal opinions about them, which definitely won’t be exactly the same, in order to take people’s changing conditions into consideration. The example you mentioned about hijab and this is an interesting point. The principle that every Muslim woman reaching puberty should cover her body in clothes that are not tight, transparent, or exaggeratingly embroidered is a major ruling which is decreed in Qur’an. No scholar can disagree about it, yet the features of hijab and whether or not it should cover the face, or what color it should be or what design, were left to the scholars to decide according to the changes in circumstances from one place to another, from one time to another, or even from one taste or cultural or psychological background to another. In this case forcing everybody to follow a certain minor ruling said by one scholar will make people run away from the religion and prefer a secular style of life. Islam does not look at the differences among scholars about minor issues with sensibility or discomfort, but on the contrary, it encourages such differences to accommodate various circumstances.

    The differences may not only occur amongst two or more scholars but it may occur by the same scholar when circumstances change, Shafi`i—one of the most distinguished scholars in Islam—wrote a book about his legal opinions and personal interpretation of Islamic law when he was in Iraq, but once he moved to live in Egypt, he had to change it all—except for the major issues—knowing that the people of Egypt are culturally different from those in Iraq, consequently, the old book would not suit their lifestyle.

    One thing still remains for you to know is that when a scholar makes a personal opinion in the slightest matter; it is not a haphazard process. Deducing personal opinions is a huge science with rules and conditions for the person who handles it. Moreover, if this minor issue is of notable importance to the Muslim community, individual opinions are not to be considered. The scholars must come together and discuss it till they reach a group consensus and this process is termed ijma` (consensus/agreement).

    Thank you again for your participation and we are looking forward to hearing from you.

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    Orignal link: In Christianity, the believers still disagree on major things that are the cornerstone of the religion. Christians still have four bibles! In addition to more than one image of Jesus, is he one or three united entities? Or even three separate entities? They still quarrel about the meaning of the Trinity. Some churches agree on abortion and homosexuality while others do not, and many other things of such magnitude.






    This is so True and most christian have already became athiest actual the whole of UK/US and EU is athiest if you would ask me.




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    let's not pass on insults against other religions, even if its in a joking manner.

    great post stranger thanks.

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    This is an extremely sensitive issue with me since I am Roman Catholic and will not appreciate any bigotted or derrogatory comments made about the Pope. I have not said anything bad about the religion of Islam and I hope people will respect the beliefs of the Catholic faith and leave it alone, thanks.
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    [OT]marianna.. aaahhh... who insluted the pope?!, the above was talking about leadership, and in no way did the article insulted the pope as far as I can see!.(note: if you have read the article, you will notes that it is actuly a question and answer, the qustion came from the Catholic, and the answer came from a muslim)[/OT]

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    Yes, but I do not want this thread to end up bashing Catholics because someone will come in and start finger pointing and saying vile things
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    I'm also a Catholic Marianna and I too would not like this thread to turn into Pope bashing

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    Thanks Julieanne. I think it is great to learn from other religions and though I may not totally agree with everything a particular religion believes in I am not going to call people names or say their belief is stupid. For example, I do not believe in Buddaism nor Hinduis--however--I think that both have great things to teach as far as compassion and understanding of nature and human beings.
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    Okay I will not bash the pope.

    He had a pope-mobile once.
    He likes sports especially football (socccer)
    He is a writer, I think.
    He's fairly intelligent.


    He's really no different than you or I.
    Just a person. thats all.


    ..

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    Yep and I think it is time for a new one. God bless Pope Jon Paul II but we need a pope who is able to perform his job adequately.
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    just a question ... if the Pope god forbids Dies... who takes over then ?

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    just a question ... if the Pope god forbids Dies... who takes over then ?




    A new pope, times back the pope use to have political powers then untill one day the King of england(forgot his name) wanted to have divorce his wife but the Church didnt approve of it so then the king said bye bye to church and all the people of England converted to Anglicans.

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    Angel,

    As far as I understand, there is a committee of the highest ranking Cardinals and Archbishops (correct me if I am wrong). THey nominate a few based on criteria and then they sit and vote for who they think the best candidate for the papacy is.

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    The king was King Henry the VIII.
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    Angel,

    As far as I understand, there is a committee of the highest ranking Cardinals and Archbishops (correct me if I am wrong). THey nominate a few based on criteria and then they sit and vote for who they think the best candidate for the papacy is.




    WHAT!! no democracy in vatican city???? oh the horror.
    They'd better watch out for GWBush and Co. Ah, thats right, they don't have any oil under the vatican to be worried.

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    what powers does the Pope have?!, from what I understand, people beleave that he can hear God's voice?!, and also if he puts his hand on someone and say "Bless you my child", then that someone is blessed and no longer have to worrie about the hereafter?!.



    I always viewed the Pope as a human, just another leader (who have done his job and it is time for him to rest, if I may add). But some people seem to treat him as something holy!!!!!



    so what powers does he have?! and how does he prove that he truly is holy?!



    P.S. the king want to devorice his wife, so he change the religon?! talk about faith!!!!

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    I view the pope as being human, there are no special powers. He just directs the wishes of the Catholic diocese and guides Catholics with the scriptures. I do not agree with everything that the Catholic church believes in but I also know I will not change my religion.

    I consider him holy as far as the position he holds and respect him highly for that also but I do not equate him with Saints or with Mary or Jesus or God.
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    just a question ... if the Pope god forbids Dies... who takes over then ?




    A new pope, times back the pope use to have political powers then untill one day the King of england(forgot his name) wanted to have divorce his wife but the Church didnt approve of it so then the king said bye bye to church and all the people of England converted to Anglicans.





    how could they just convert ,,, just cos he wasnt allowed to divorce his wife .. didnt anyone protest or say anything ?

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    King Henry was one crazy monarch. He beheaded his wives when they could not produce a male heir to the throne. If he knew then what we know now...big ooooopps....
    "life is beautiful if we open our eyes." --Meir Persoff

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    just a question ... if the Pope god forbids Dies... who takes over then ?




    A new pope, times back the pope use to have political powers then untill one day the King of england(forgot his name) wanted to have divorce his wife but the Church didnt approve of it so then the king said bye bye to church and all the people of England converted to Anglicans.





    how could they just convert ,,, just cos he wasnt allowed to divorce his wife .. didnt anyone protest or say anything ?





    Well thats the Brits for you!

    They have so many funny things in the west, like people with healing power of christ, so many thousands of Sects, a religion of Athiests converted from Anglican.

    and they are just to busy pointing fingers at others if you know what i mean!

    Look at example the Catholic women Sonia Gandhi, She converted from Christianity to Idol worshipping.

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