A killer instinct

Neo · 14th February 2003, 06:59 AM

Let me give you my definition of what is a killer instinct. Is when a person is unfairly taken something he owns or love.

Now do American Soldiers have that right now, I am sure you all agree, most of the soldier if not all, are against this war, JUST LIKE THE PUBLIC. They are doing this, just because its their duty. BUT DO THEY HAVE IT IN THEM?.

Now, IRaqi soldier, again, like the public. They feel that the Americans dont want Saddam, they have some sort of hidden agenda. And obviously, the American are after the oil. Thus, thats itself make an Iraqi soldier posses that killer instinct. The fact a person comes to his land and take what rightfully not his, will piss him big time. Hell, will piss anyone big time.

Now here is the scenario, in one hand, a soldier that does this for the sake of it. Just because he was told so. And on the other hand, this soldier does it from inside of his heart, HE ACTUALLY DEFENDING SOMETHING HE LOVE.

What would be the outcome. Although the American may win. But I am sorry, there would thousands and thousands of American soldiers killed. And its not a go in and go out war. It would be something near to vietnam for the americans, if not the same. ESPECIALLY IF IRAQ HAS CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPON.

Schutzstaffel · 14th February 2003, 07:28 AM

Additionally, I believe that a blind, fanatical belief in something will unleash the killer instinct. It is in all of us. It's just a question of what terms and conditions will make itself evident.

speak_freely99 · 14th February 2003, 07:29 AM

So what happened to these same brave Iraqi soldiers 12 years ago when the Arabs CALLED the US to help them fight against their own ?

<img src="http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/images/turnley/4.jpg">

<img src="http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/images/turnley/39.JPG">

Ugly_Truth · 14th February 2003, 08:11 AM

I'm sorry. My pulse is far more firmly on the will of the American Military. We just want to get it over with. We're angry at the USS COLE, we're angry about the embassies, we're angry at the Riyadh barracks bombing, we're angry about the WTC.

We've been training for 12 years on desert warfare, with chemical and biological agents the probability. Remember, Saddam has threatened to use weapons he claims he doesn't have.

So, is the will there? You bet. Is the training there? Gotcha covered. Will we fight Iraqs fight? Not a chance.

A killer instinct is not in everyone. It's in some. Even those that don't have it, rely on training and tactics. The "killer instinct" is only effective, if all has gone to ca ca. Training and tactics are far more important then a killer instinct.

Totenhosen · 14th February 2003, 09:13 AM

I think that most of the men in the Iraqi army don't want to fight and possibly die. Right now they don't have much choice. Being in the army affords them a better life than being an average everyday citizen in Iraq. If they were to abandon their posts people loyal to Saddam would surely kill or torture them. As soon as they see U.S. troops they will surrender.

Panoramic · 14th February 2003, 04:29 PM

I know some ppl will call me a coward or even a zionist (seems like the fashion these days) but hey who cares?

what I want to say is that if America decided to go to war (which i oppose under current circumstances) but if they do then I hope an Iraqi General would kill Saddam Hussain.
I hope Iraq would collapse quickly.

For one reason: to avoid innocent ppl being killed by American smart / stupid weapons. minimise casualties. If that is the only way to avoid casualties then lets hope it will be a short war.

theman · 14th February 2003, 04:51 PM

<blockquote><hr />
I'm sorry. My pulse is far more firmly on the will of the American Military. We just want to get it over with. We're angry at the USS COLE, we're angry about the embassies, we're angry at the Riyadh barracks bombing, we're angry about the WTC.

<hr /></blockquote>

and which one of these incidents did the muslims from iraq perpetrate?

Most definitely there is more of a will to fight when your fighting for your own land, honor, and dignity, than if your in a foriegn land following orders from the oil tycoons. If anyone disagrees with this then knowledge of history and human nature eludes him.

But the most powerful will to fight is fighting for the sake of God. This mentallity transformed the world, it was this mentallity that brought down both the byzantine and persian empires to its knees.

when the time comes when muslims struggle solely for the sake of God and seek his favor, then we will witness another transformation of the world, God willing.

my heart and soul go out for the innocent people of iraq, may God protect them from the US weapons of mass destruction that will surely rain down indiscriminately upon their roofs.

Neo · 14th February 2003, 06:01 PM

<blockquote><hr />
I'm sorry. My pulse is far more firmly on the will of the American Military. We just want to get it over with. We're angry at the USS COLE, we're angry about the embassies, we're angry at the Riyadh barracks bombing, we're angry about the WTC.

<hr /></blockquote>

UT, all the above facts are nice and danddy. But Iraq was not direclt responsible. And furthermore, what you have mentioned happened long time ago. For example, when the 9/11 happened, and America decided to attack afghan, I would say the soldiers than had killer instinct with the memories of their recent loss. But you must admit the soldiers are pushed to lead this war.

Iraqis killer instinct would be far greater than the Americans, and while the weapons are of high tech, it still requires a person with passion and killer instinct to operate it to its maximum ability. USA soldier would lake that. They may win at the end, but the loss of lives would be tremendous. IT wont be as easy as the STATES claim to be

old_n_grumpy · 15th February 2003, 02:53 AM

I don't think motivation to fight will be a problem for the US soldiers that will fight in Iraq. There was no real motivation to fight in WWI, WWII(Europe), Korea or Vietnam - the US was not attacked by those being fought - but US troops performed very well.

MoonBeam · 15th February 2003, 07:34 AM

"But the most powerful will to fight is fighting for the sake of God. This mentallity transformed the world, it was this mentallity that brought down both the byzantine and persian empires to its knees."

Unfortunately, this attitude is what is turning the whole world against Islam. <img src="/threads/images/graemlins/bow.gif" alt="" />

Omegatron · 15th February 2003, 11:28 AM

<blockquote><hr />
I know some ppl will call me a coward or even a zionist (seems like the fashion these days) but hey who cares?

what I want to say is that if America decided to go to war (which i oppose under current circumstances) but if they do then I hope an Iraqi General would kill Saddam Hussain.
I hope Iraq would collapse quickly.

For one reason: to avoid innocent ppl being killed by American smart / stupid weapons. minimise casualties. If that is the only way to avoid casualties then lets hope it will be a short war.

<hr /></blockquote>

God forbid any war but for those of us that remember Desert Storm any incusion into Iraq would be quick. The last two incusions into muslim territory both of which was called upon by the UN to help Kuwait and this latest terrible event when the US was maliciously attacked by the Al qaida in a cowardly manner and for no reason. Both campaigns as one can not call them officially a war only lastest slightly over a month maybe two. Little American life was lost. Neo I have to say your way off base on thinking that alot of losses will be incured by America. American troop losses will be minimal and any war would be very swift most likely with Iraqi troops surrendering just like they did over a decade ago. Just like they did in Afganistan about a year ago.

I hate the idea of war just any follower of GOD. Now lets all hope for peace. I beleive Muslim people as well as Christian or Jew are taught the same. Our religious texts all speak the same words only written in different languages but all with the same meaning. It is how we practice those words that differ. What I think is a shame is that alot of Muslim's got a bad rap from fanatics like bin laden and others that beleive in racism and terrorizing other people that are different from them. Any intelligent adult knows that all people can not be judged by the actions of a few men. I think instead of all this talk of war we need to start talking peace and brotherhood. Let the Jew and Muslim make peace. Stop calling the Americans the devil and everyone live together in harmony accepting our differences. I for one am an American and I am about tired of seeing this war stuff as anybody. Lets just move on and work on peace.

ArabianKnight · 15th February 2003, 11:24 PM

correction Speakfreely 99,

the first picture is not of "brave Iraqi soldiers" but that of iraqi civilians in civilian trucks, buses and cars. They were fleding Kuwait on the Kuwait-Basra road towards the last showdown of the war. American/British fighter bomers "cowerdly" burned the whole stretch of the highway at very close range (since those civilians had no means to counter attack). The result is the carnage seen in the picture. ONE OF THE MANY EXAMPLES OF AMERICA'S CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

Hubi · 16th February 2003, 12:02 AM

Americans never did win a war. Look back in the history. Not once they won a war. The war with Iraq previously they didnt win, the only throw them out of Kuwait. We all know what happen in Veitnam. And droping nukes over heroshima and Nagazaki, that was not war. War is sending troops to the ground!!!. War with Afghanistan is hardly a war, bunch of poor people with probably the gun is their powerful weapon!!!

If this war happens it will be the first real war American will face. So we will see what they are made of

old_n_grumpy · 16th February 2003, 12:24 AM

Hubi,

You might want to check the history of the island-to-island campaign waged by the US in the Pacific in WWII. It was a truly awesome effort unparallelled in the history of warfare.

old_n_grumpy · 16th February 2003, 12:28 AM

What were all of those Iraqi "civilians" doing in Kuwait? Looting I'll wager (their cars were packed full of all sorts of goodies).

ArabianKnight · 16th February 2003, 01:46 AM

old n grumpy,

assuming what you are saying is true, i.e. the iraqi civilians were fleding with cars full of goodies, so what, anything could happen in wars, looting is the least thing!..isn't it?

but I guess in the criminal and gangster world of the american millitry, looters are sentenced to death by burning them to crisp using F-16 fighter jets,
so that they don't do it again!!

WT_Sherman · 16th February 2003, 04:45 AM

This is about MY FAMILY being safe from men who have already used such weapons (which turned out to be GENETIC POISONS, allowing the passing on of mutations BTW ..Halabja) from having the ABILITY to pass those weapons to others who who not only CANNOT be deterred from USING them on my family, but also would delight in doing so nomatter the cost to THEIR countrymen or co-religionists.

Ask yourselves what would delight Saddam more than using smallpox or Vx or any weapon in the USA, and sliding the blame to the mullahs in Teheran?

North Korea and Iraq SHARE this will, and these means. Iran with its doppelganger of Hiz b'Allah is only slightly removed from this position by the will of the Iranian people who continue to voice their extreme displeasure with the mullahs.

14th February 2003, 04:51 PM	#7
theman Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,663 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	<blockquote><font class="small"><hr /> I'm sorry. My pulse is far more firmly on the will of the American Military. We just want to get it over with. We're angry at the USS COLE, we're angry about the embassies, we're angry at the Riyadh barracks bombing, we're angry about the WTC. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> and which one of these incidents did the muslims from iraq perpetrate? Most definitely there is more of a will to fight when your fighting for your own land, honor, and dignity, than if your in a foriegn land following orders from the oil tycoons. If anyone disagrees with this then knowledge of history and human nature eludes him. But the most powerful will to fight is fighting for the sake of God. This mentallity transformed the world, it was this mentallity that brought down both the byzantine and persian empires to its knees. when the time comes when muslims struggle solely for the sake of God and seek his favor, then we will witness another transformation of the world, God willing. my heart and soul go out for the innocent people of iraq, may God protect them from the US weapons of mass destruction that will surely rain down indiscriminately upon their roofs.

14th February 2003, 06:01 PM	#8
Neo Founder Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bahrain Posts: 12,113 Thanked 47 Times in 30 Posts Reputation: 260	<blockquote><font class="small"><hr /> I'm sorry. My pulse is far more firmly on the will of the American Military. We just want to get it over with. We're angry at the USS COLE, we're angry about the embassies, we're angry at the Riyadh barracks bombing, we're angry about the WTC. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> UT, all the above facts are nice and danddy. But Iraq was not direclt responsible. And furthermore, what you have mentioned happened long time ago. For example, when the 9/11 happened, and America decided to attack afghan, I would say the soldiers than had killer instinct with the memories of their recent loss. But you must admit the soldiers are pushed to lead this war. Iraqis killer instinct would be far greater than the Americans, and while the weapons are of high tech, it still requires a person with passion and killer instinct to operate it to its maximum ability. USA soldier would lake that. They may win at the end, but the loss of lives would be tremendous. IT wont be as easy as the STATES claim to be __________________

15th February 2003, 11:28 AM	#11
Omegatron Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 524 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	<blockquote><font class="small"><hr /> I know some ppl will call me a coward or even a zionist (seems like the fashion these days) but hey who cares? what I want to say is that if America decided to go to war (which i oppose under current circumstances) but if they do then I hope an Iraqi General would kill Saddam Hussain. I hope Iraq would collapse quickly. For one reason: to avoid innocent ppl being killed by American smart / stupid weapons. minimise casualties. If that is the only way to avoid casualties then lets hope it will be a short war. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> God forbid any war but for those of us that remember Desert Storm any incusion into Iraq would be quick. The last two incusions into muslim territory both of which was called upon by the UN to help Kuwait and this latest terrible event when the US was maliciously attacked by the Al qaida in a cowardly manner and for no reason. Both campaigns as one can not call them officially a war only lastest slightly over a month maybe two. Little American life was lost. Neo I have to say your way off base on thinking that alot of losses will be incured by America. American troop losses will be minimal and any war would be very swift most likely with Iraqi troops surrendering just like they did over a decade ago. Just like they did in Afganistan about a year ago. I hate the idea of war just any follower of GOD. Now lets all hope for peace. I beleive Muslim people as well as Christian or Jew are taught the same. Our religious texts all speak the same words only written in different languages but all with the same meaning. It is how we practice those words that differ. What I think is a shame is that alot of Muslim's got a bad rap from fanatics like bin laden and others that beleive in racism and terrorizing other people that are different from them. Any intelligent adult knows that all people can not be judged by the actions of a few men. I think instead of all this talk of war we need to start talking peace and brotherhood. Let the Jew and Muslim make peace. Stop calling the Americans the devil and everyone live together in harmony accepting our differences. I for one am an American and I am about tired of seeing this war stuff as anybody. Lets just move on and work on peace.

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14th February 2003, 06:59 AM	#1
Neo Founder Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bahrain Posts: 12,113 Thanked 47 Times in 30 Posts Reputation: 260	Let me give you my definition of what is a killer instinct. Is when a person is unfairly taken something he owns or love. Now do American Soldiers have that right now, I am sure you all agree, most of the soldier if not all, are against this war, JUST LIKE THE PUBLIC. They are doing this, just because its their duty. BUT DO THEY HAVE IT IN THEM?. Now, IRaqi soldier, again, like the public. They feel that the Americans dont want Saddam, they have some sort of hidden agenda. And obviously, the American are after the oil. Thus, thats itself make an Iraqi soldier posses that killer instinct. The fact a person comes to his land and take what rightfully not his, will piss him big time. Hell, will piss anyone big time. Now here is the scenario, in one hand, a soldier that does this for the sake of it. Just because he was told so. And on the other hand, this soldier does it from inside of his heart, HE ACTUALLY DEFENDING SOMETHING HE LOVE. What would be the outcome. Although the American may win. But I am sorry, there would thousands and thousands of American soldiers killed. And its not a go in and go out war. It would be something near to vietnam for the americans, if not the same. ESPECIALLY IF IRAQ HAS CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPON.

14th February 2003, 07:28 AM	#2
Schutzstaffel Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 61 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	Additionally, I believe that a blind, fanatical belief in something will unleash the killer instinct. It is in all of us. It's just a question of what terms and conditions will make itself evident.

14th February 2003, 07:29 AM	#3
speak_freely99 Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,038 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	So what happened to these same brave Iraqi soldiers 12 years ago when the Arabs CALLED the US to help them fight against their own ? <img src="http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/images/turnley/4.jpg"> <img src="http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/images/turnley/39.JPG">

14th February 2003, 08:11 AM	#4
Ugly_Truth Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5,828 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	I'm sorry. My pulse is far more firmly on the will of the American Military. We just want to get it over with. We're angry at the USS COLE, we're angry about the embassies, we're angry at the Riyadh barracks bombing, we're angry about the WTC. We've been training for 12 years on desert warfare, with chemical and biological agents the probability. Remember, Saddam has threatened to use weapons he claims he doesn't have. So, is the will there? You bet. Is the training there? Gotcha covered. Will we fight Iraqs fight? Not a chance. A killer instinct is not in everyone. It's in some. Even those that don't have it, rely on training and tactics. The "killer instinct" is only effective, if all has gone to ca ca. Training and tactics are far more important then a killer instinct.

14th February 2003, 09:13 AM	#5
Totenhosen Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,499 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	I think that most of the men in the Iraqi army don't want to fight and possibly die. Right now they don't have much choice. Being in the army affords them a better life than being an average everyday citizen in Iraq. If they were to abandon their posts people loyal to Saddam would surely kill or torture them. As soon as they see U.S. troops they will surrender.

14th February 2003, 04:29 PM	#6
Panoramic Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,293 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Reputation: 41	I know some ppl will call me a coward or even a zionist (seems like the fashion these days) but hey who cares? what I want to say is that if America decided to go to war (which i oppose under current circumstances) but if they do then I hope an Iraqi General would kill Saddam Hussain. I hope Iraq would collapse quickly. For one reason: to avoid innocent ppl being killed by American smart / stupid weapons. minimise casualties. If that is the only way to avoid casualties then lets hope it will be a short war.

15th February 2003, 02:53 AM	#9
old_n_grumpy Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,010 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	I don't think motivation to fight will be a problem for the US soldiers that will fight in Iraq. There was no real motivation to fight in WWI, WWII(Europe), Korea or Vietnam - the US was not attacked by those being fought - but US troops performed very well.

15th February 2003, 07:34 AM	#10
MoonBeam Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 684 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	"But the most powerful will to fight is fighting for the sake of God. This mentallity transformed the world, it was this mentallity that brought down both the byzantine and persian empires to its knees." Unfortunately, this attitude is what is turning the whole world against Islam. <img src="/threads/images/graemlins/bow.gif" alt="" />

15th February 2003, 11:24 PM	#12
ArabianKnight Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 112 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	correction Speakfreely 99, the first picture is not of "brave Iraqi soldiers" but that of iraqi civilians in civilian trucks, buses and cars. They were fleding Kuwait on the Kuwait-Basra road towards the last showdown of the war. American/British fighter bomers "cowerdly" burned the whole stretch of the highway at very close range (since those civilians had no means to counter attack). The result is the carnage seen in the picture. ONE OF THE MANY EXAMPLES OF AMERICA'S CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

16th February 2003, 12:02 AM	#13
Hubi Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 51 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	Americans never did win a war. Look back in the history. Not once they won a war. The war with Iraq previously they didnt win, the only throw them out of Kuwait. We all know what happen in Veitnam. And droping nukes over heroshima and Nagazaki, that was not war. War is sending troops to the ground!!!. War with Afghanistan is hardly a war, bunch of poor people with probably the gun is their powerful weapon!!! If this war happens it will be the first real war American will face. So we will see what they are made of

16th February 2003, 12:24 AM	#14
old_n_grumpy Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,010 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	Hubi, You might want to check the history of the island-to-island campaign waged by the US in the Pacific in WWII. It was a truly awesome effort unparallelled in the history of warfare.

16th February 2003, 12:28 AM	#15
old_n_grumpy Loyal Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,010 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	What were all of those Iraqi "civilians" doing in Kuwait? Looting I'll wager (their cars were packed full of all sorts of goodies).

16th February 2003, 01:46 AM	#16
ArabianKnight Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 112 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	old n grumpy, assuming what you are saying is true, i.e. the iraqi civilians were fleding with cars full of goodies, so what, anything could happen in wars, looting is the least thing!..isn't it? but I guess in the criminal and gangster world of the american millitry, looters are sentenced to death by burning them to crisp using F-16 fighter jets, so that they don't do it again!!

16th February 2003, 04:45 AM	#17
WT_Sherman Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 80 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Reputation: 10	This is about MY FAMILY being safe from men who have already used such weapons (which turned out to be GENETIC POISONS, allowing the passing on of mutations BTW ..Halabja) from having the ABILITY to pass those weapons to others who who not only CANNOT be deterred from USING them on my family, but also would delight in doing so nomatter the cost to THEIR countrymen or co-religionists. Ask yourselves what would delight Saddam more than using smallpox or Vx or any weapon in the USA, and sliding the blame to the mullahs in Teheran? North Korea and Iraq SHARE this will, and these means. Iran with its doppelganger of Hiz b'Allah is only slightly removed from this position by the will of the Iranian people who continue to voice their extreme displeasure with the mullahs.